Comments on Tory Bear - right-wing political gossip: Confessions of a Climate Change Denier

If they had to lie about it, then it can't be ...

2009-11-28T22:10:10.672Z

If they had to lie about it, then it can't be real, can it? Really?

https://thatsnews.blogspot.com/2009/11/weekender-climategate-special-gift-that.html

0.0011% of the atmosphere is CO2 from burning foss...

2009-11-27T16:38:43.338Z

0.0011% of the atmosphere is CO2 from burning fossil fuels. There is no evidence of its causal link with accumulation of heat in the climate.

1) Fossil fuels - as extraction technology improves, new surveys reveal new deposits, increased prices make previously uneconomical, untapped deposits economical to exploit there is NO shortage of fossil fuels for the foreseeable future.
2) the best short term investment is to develop clean burn technology for coal and build coal fired stations as well as gas storage facilities and gas fired stations.
3) Nuclear is a medium terms solution
4) finding heavily subsidised fools-energy projects like wind and solar is diverting funding from meeting our needs by improving and using existing technology
5) new methods of energy production will not arrive because either we wish for them or toss money at them, they will arrive perhaps by accident as a by-product of other research or from a "eureka" moment

The biggest threat to and killer of ALL life on Earth is "the Environment" - why ever would we want to be "friendly" to soething that is trying to kill us?

Mankind is at the top of the food change because he can adapt to, adopt or manage his local environment (see Las Vagas) not run scared before it or be nice to it.

"In a few weeks in Copenhagen, the most impor...

2009-11-27T12:59:46.312Z

"In a few weeks in Copenhagen, the most important meeting of mankind EVER will take place"

Not Potsdam?

"There are thousands of publicly available peer-reviewed scientific papers reflecting there is a real consensus."

Translates into "A bunch of my mates took a look at my paper and they thought it was awesome."

Also, look up peer review failure when you catch the time, Will. Relay said info to Jizz Garman.

Climate change: the greatest con since the anti-nuclear movement.

Hilary Benn on R4 this morning "In a few wee...

2009-11-27T12:08:56.708Z

Hilary Benn on R4 this morning

"In a few weeks in Copenhagen, the most important meeting of mankind EVER will take place"

https://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/question_time/8382037.stm

Melanie Phillips on QT

Hi TB, I've not used the word "denier&qu...

2009-11-27T11:50:12.872Z

Hi TB,

I've not used the word "denier" (although fair to say that others on Left Foot Forward have done so). Instead I prefer the formulation: "those who deny the existence of man-made climate change".

As Joss Garman pointed out in his superb rebuttal of Lord Lawson's Times article earlier this week:

"There are thousands of publicly available peer-reviewed scientific papers reflecting there is a real consensus. Indeed, this is the view of The Royal Society, the US Academy of Sciences, the IPCC, the Met Office, the Tyndall Centre and NASA. In contrast, point us to a peer reviewed scientific paper that rejects the man-made CO2 link."

https://www.leftfootforward.org/2009/11/why-lord-lawson-is-wrong/

So can we start having a debate about the policies needed to abate manmade climate change rather than wasting hot air on its existence.

All the best,

Will

No, TB. A belief that global warming is a realit...

2009-11-27T11:22:29.268Z

No, TB.

A belief that global warming is a reality, and that it is at the very least serious exacerbated by humanity, and that cuts in emissions are thus necessary, does not make someone an authoritarian leftie.

Indeed, many of us who seriously believe in action on climate change are disturbed by the fascism of the left in their obsession with compulsion - action on climate change should involve effective investment in making cleaner technologies more affordable and practical, so that being environmentally firendly becomes a no-brainer. Until then, the lefties will be fighting a losing battle.

And comments like TB's help no-one.

Tory Bear, I've put together my thoughts expl...

2009-11-27T11:20:13.019Z

Tory Bear,

I've put together my thoughts explaning why understanding the science behind it all is quite important. I conclude that there appears to be too much messing with the raw data to trust the models we're placing our faith in.

https://bit.ly/5BYODF

One day we might be able to have a proper debate a...

2009-11-27T11:20:13.018Z

One day we might be able to have a proper debate about this, and then we might actually solve the problem of using up our energy sources too quickly. Until then however, anyone who dares to disagree with the "truth" is seized upon as being an idiot.

When I tell people I'm skeptical they ask how I can possibly not believe it's happening. But ask them if they're 100% sure about it, and whether they might have any doubt at all. In the end, most people are skeptics on the issue they just can't admit it.

Notice one thing - on question time last night, no...

2009-11-27T11:01:37.191Z

Notice one thing - on question time last night, no panelist dared say the science was settled. This was despite the strong advocacy of three of the panel for measures to combat climate change.

If this is typical, I think you will find those screaming "denier" in tones meaning "heretic" will be those isolated whilst most of us discuss the evidence and can express a range of opinions. It may be the CRU leak did in fact change something.

They don't like it up 'em, Mr Mainwaring! ...

2009-11-27T10:17:43.735Z

They don't like it up 'em, Mr Mainwaring!

Well said TB. I think the responses from Sunder show that you have got them all stirred up.

At the risk of sounding like an old fogey on TB, I have heard all this nonsense before. The world cooled slightly from around 1940 to 1970 - cue scientists bleating on about a new ice age. The world warmed slightly from 1970 to 1998, cue bleating about a new burn age.

Take the long view, for heaven's sake. The world has been warmer and colder in the past and will be again. We would be much better off adapting to change than trying to stop it.

Huge applause from me TB. The lunatic frenzy whic...

2009-11-27T09:55:01.389Z

Huge applause from me TB.

The lunatic frenzy which these fascists have whipped up is just one step away from "deniers" having to wear green stars on the clothes and being herded onto sustainable cattle trucks.

The big problem they can't answer is this one: The history of the earth is one of continuous climate change. Do they really think they can maintain a stable climate for ever? Arrogance? Ignorance? Or a mixture of the two?

Stopping the tides would be more achievable.

"The wind and sea is free, we’d be stupid not...

2009-11-27T04:43:03.661Z

"The wind and sea is free, we’d be stupid not to use it"

I think your wrong.

Pumping huge amounts of energy out of the atmosphere and oceans sounds like a nutty idea to me - given our pretty limited understanding of those systems. I have no idea what the impact on a tidal around an estuary ecosystem (say) is if you remove gigawatt of energy from it. Nor does anyone else.
Firstly, burn coal. There's plenty of clean coal burning approaches and we have colossal reserves of coal off our shores. Build more nukes now, today and invest in fusion research for the future.

Well done TB, I get the feeling that the cracks a...

2009-11-27T01:28:55.396Z

Well done TB,

I get the feeling that the cracks are really starting to appear in the dam with this nonsense. It was only a matter of time of course.

The warmists have stopped using the term "Global Warming" because they know that the actuality doesn't match up with their ever more ludicrous predictions. Instead we are told about "climate change".....The climate has always changed.....fortunately, or we wouldn't be here.

the really annoying one for me is how the BBC amongst others talk about "Greenhouse Gases" as though it is an incontrovertible truth whilsy ignoring the fact that these gases are being produced faster now than at any time in the last century and the temperature is going down.

Oh well, lets just bury our heads in the sand eh?

This is about state control and big government.....nothing else!

Too many of those who worship at Al Gore's alt...

2009-11-26T23:31:49.777Z

Too many of those who worship at Al Gore's altar are watermelons - green on the outside, red on the inside. They want higher taxes, reduced living standards, an end to capitalism etc etc.

Applause!!!!!!!! But don't blame the sheeple, ...

2009-11-26T23:23:59.111Z

Applause!!!!!!!!
But don't blame the sheeple, they have only swallowed lies sent from on high via the mainstream media!

Hey! Theology doesn't bring dangerous pitfalls...

2009-11-26T23:19:16.077Z

Hey! Theology doesn't bring dangerous pitfalls. (I must, at this tage, delcare an interest, I do a degree in "dangerous pitfalls"...)
But I do absolutely agree with you. Eco-nazis really get up my nose.

I'm with TB on this one. They are all rabid nu...

2009-11-26T22:39:04.009Z

I'm with TB on this one. They are all rabid nutjobs who want to control the masses as they tried to do with smokers and their laughable Smoking Ban Experiment...It won't wash.

Liars, the lot of them.

I said much the same things a couple of weeks ago ...

2009-11-26T22:14:56.247Z

I said much the same things a couple of weeks ago on my blog in an entry called "Its the end of the world as we know it". Caused quite some discussion.
https://www.stevetierney.org/blog/?p=673

I agree with you, anyhow. Passionate AGW advocates feel free to shout at me as much as you like. Water off a duck's back.

TB, As Ronald Reagan might have said: 'There...

2009-11-26T22:10:10.011Z

TB,

As Ronald Reagan might have said: 'There you go again', trying to police the political discourse. I am beginning to think this is political incorrectness gone mad on your part. What with this attempt to police and control what lefties think and say? A fortnight ago, I had an impression you were somewhat libertarian, but I appear to have been mistaken about that.

* The post was accurate and fair to everyone it quotes (unlike your description of it).
* I can't see why you could possibly be "shamed" by pointing out a view which you must be proud of; that would only work if you were taking a contrarian position for shock value itself; I appreciate your clarification that you have taken the trouble to look into the climate science issues!
* It has had a lot of attention: perhaps people were unaware that individuals who often articulate theirs as the lone brave dissident challengers of orthodoxy were very much singing from a shared songsheet.

The initial post noted this as a debate within the right - noting that David Cameron's high profile use of climate change to reposition the Conservative party seems to go against the grain of much grassroots opinion. Bleating about the left rather misses that.

I suspect that may be why many right-of-centre political blogs seem to be staying quite low profile about their climate sceptic views at the moment.

How can you 'deny' something that hasn'...

2009-11-26T21:51:27.920Z

How can you 'deny' something that hasn't happened?

Sunder, while you may not have used the word denie...

2009-11-26T21:44:15.359Z

Sunder, while you may not have used the word denier personaly there has been a noted increase in aggressive attacks since it was put together.

There was no challenge was just letting off steam, clearing a few things up.

While hilarious to begin with it is now becoming tedious that we cant even mention things like the CRU emails without all sorts piling in citing your very list.

While I disagree with you on the science, I have n...

2009-11-26T21:26:54.562Z

While I disagree with you on the science, I have no difficulty in agreeing with you on the politics. One of the biggest problems with this discussion is that the green fascists have hijacked the issue to promote their own agendas. We do not need to change our social structures and our way of life. We do need to re-engineer the way in which we generate and use energy. As the life of the infrastructure is less than forty years, in some cases much less, it is largely a case of replacing it, as it wears out, in a way that is not dependent on imported oil, coal or gas. It's not fundamentally about politics, it's about engineering.

I totally agree with you. I am sick of the bleati...

2009-11-26T21:13:59.690Z

I totally agree with you. I am sick of the bleating by those who have been conned by the global warming charade.

Climate change is cyclical, we have had ice ages and droughts in the past and I am old enough to remember the Sunday Times in the 70s telling us we were heading for another Ice Age. What happened to that?

We should be more worried about pollution. Chemicals pumped into the atmosphere and the sea have got to be more of a threat than CO2 which we breathe out for god's sake, so how toxic can that be?

I am thinking about buying Christopher Booker's book on the fallacy of global warming.

Keep up the good work, some of us are on your side! :-)

Another inaccuracy in yr personal challenge/attack...

2009-11-26T21:06:17.593Z

Another inaccuracy in yr personal challenge/attack. I have not used the word "denier" about this debate, about you or anybody else. That appears to be your central point. So you ought to remove my name from your list of those you are challenging.

Otherwise, it looks as if you take a rather sloppy and fact-free approach to debating political opponents. I think honest disagreements should be possible.

The correct phrase is "warm-monger"

2009-11-26T21:00:50.547Z

The correct phrase is "warm-monger"